Gray Planning Board Agenda
December 9th, 2010- 7:00 P.M.
Henry Pennell Municipal Complex
24 Main Street, Gray
Don Hutchings, Dan Cobb, John Redlon
George Thebarge
Excused: Jason Wilson, Rod Boyington, John Scheckel
Others present and speaking: Shawn Frank, Robert Cole, Dave Kramlich, Gloria Barter, Liz Metayer, Pam Wilkinson, Celeste Fecteau
I.~~~~~~Minutes
Minutes of November 18th, 2010
Dan Cobb moved; John Redlon seconded
Motion to table the minutes for approval
(The Board did not receive them)
5 Yes
II.~~~~~Information- Exchange
Dan Cobb asked for follow-up on the tower project previously discussed.
Don Hutchings stated that he has spoken to Doug Webster and is gathering information.
George Thebarge stated that a letter has been written to the applicant asking for updates and response on the issues mentioned at the last meeting.
III.~~~~Public Hearing and New Business
Robert Cole, et. Al., represented by Shawn Frank of Sebago Technics, is requesting a Sketch Plan Meeting to discuss a major subdivision (7 lots) on a portion of a 460 acre (+/-) parcel located on the southerly side of Lyons Point Road near the intersection of Cole Road. ~The parcel is shown on Tax Sheets 23, 31, 32, 39, and 40, is identified as ~Map 1, lot 1, and the portion proposed to be subdivided is located in the Lake and Limited Residential (Shoreland) Zoning Districts.
John Redlon stated that in the interest of full disclosure, he is a sitting member of the Board of Directors of the Little Sebago Lake Association and asked the Board if it is an issue.
Dan Cobb and Don Hutchings did not have any issues provided that John Redlon can be impartial.
Shawn Frank stated the property in question was an inheritance from the applicant’s father and is a 460 acre parcel. He gave an overview of the location of the parcel and that a 7 lot subdivision that is being requested. There is one lot and they propose adding a road to a common access area and to have 6 additional single family lots. There are existing power lines that go to that area.
He offered a conventional lot plan, as well as, a cluster development plan. The main purpose for this initial proposal is for property tax reasons. There is potential for future lots to be developed if these go well. They propose a cluster development as a better alternative and hope the Board feels the same way.
Gloria Barter of Northern Oaks Dr. asked about the common area as where it is proposed is a shallow area. Robert Cole stated that there is an area in the proposed location that is deep water and high ground and would be an ideal place. Off this area, the area will remain the same (IE: no beach etc). Robert Cole stated that this is a proposal and would assume that the buyers would like a common area. This subdivision would be an Association in and of itself. Gloria Barter asked if the Lyons Association is aware of this.
Shawn Frank stated that this is the first step in a long process and more work needs to be done.
Dave Kramlich, an abutter asked whether or not that these lots would access their property by Lyons Point Rd. He is part of the Deer Acres Road Association and that Deer Acres Road is the only connector road in that area and that traffic could potentially increase and while it is a private road would like to know what the Town can do.
George Thebarge stated that traffic from this would likely go out Lyons Point road would be something to consider. There is no specific ordinance dictating where people can and cannot go. This would be an issue for the Association and not for the Town.
Dave Kramlich asked about the plans including that all sprinklers are required for these houses on the lots. George Thebarge stated that proposal for the subdivision will have studies and have buffers, a pond to collect all the phosphorus, and the Planning Board will consider the impact of all the lots with regards to phosphorus but cannot put any conditions on the 1 lot already sold.
The Planning Board options can be a fire pond, underground cistern, or sprinklers for the proposal.
Liz Metayer of Cole Road stated that the main concern of this proposal is the boat ramp. With the issues of milfoil, she has concerns about this should more lots be sold in the future.
Shawn Frank stated that they are aware of this and have considered this and will meet with the Lake Association to discuss this further. He also reminded the group that this is the first step in the process. Don Hutchings suggested that they do more research on this issue.
Robert Cole stated that the he assured everyone that the proposed boat ramp would not be a public ramp. He believed that it would be a convenience to the owners of these lots. They are not asking for any approval on this at this time.
Celeste Fecteau asked how many homes in total will built. She stated that it is a very small area.
Don Hutchings stated that this proposal is in the early stages and there will be more opportunities to discuss it further.
Pam Wilkinson stated that she is encouraged by the cluster development for its development benefits. She stated that the area proposed has milfoil and a full study will be done on the lake. She would welcome a meeting with the applicant to discuss the issues. Any shoreline project will need DEP approval process to address the potential phosphorus issue. She stated that they are here to make sure that the lake is protected and hear about the next steps.
Robert Cole stated that they have reviewed the parcel and that the shore frontage property is the main area they want to concentrate on as the majority of the taxes are based there.
In the future, the potential would be out towards the Raymond line. His intent is that the remaining portion of the land would stay undeveloped for the family’s heirs. He stated that they are not in a hurry to break up these lots and develop them.
John Redlon stated that he likes the cluster plan. The boat ramp is his main concern. He wants to find out further about a private ramp on a public lake. He would like to see a cistern or a pipe in the lake for this project.
Dan Cobb asked about the developed land in relation to the lake. Shawn Frank stated that the new Association and an abutter would have ownership to this developed land.
Dan Cobb asked what they want from the Board. Shawn Frank stated they are here to present some ideas and that they would not build a boat ramp but rather, the Association would want access to the lake through the common area. Robert Cole stated that the road to this would be paved with underground utilities. He described a parking area, turnaround area to get them access to the common area as close to the lake.
Dan Cobb stated that he prefers the cluster development with as much open space as possible. He indicated that he would have concerns about the boat ramp given that the public launch is not that far from this area. He also questions the parking area by the lake. A meandering path for example would have less impact to the lake than other things proposed. He asked George Thebarge about the difference in standards for roads in cluster subdivisions.
George Thebarge stated that the cluster development plan’s trade off is more open space. The Street Ordinance Standards were approved by the Town Council. Under the new standards, the road can be less intensive, narrower and no sidewalks are needed. The proposal appears to go beyond the minimum standards. (ie: underground utilities and paved.)
Dan Cobb believes a conversation about a sidewalk should occur given the safety and welfare of people living there and accessing the lake. He suggests more porous paving materials to minimize run off to the lake. He also commented on the existing easement. George Thebarge stated that the Town will not plow this road as part of the new Street Ordinance Standards.
John Redlon asked the area is frozen and walk able for a site visit and suggests doing it before there is too much snow.
Don Hutchings asked who will own the common area. Shawn Frank stated that the Association would own it. (The 6 lot owners and the owners of the remaining land). Robert Cole stated that they would have to think about this issue.
He reminded the applicant that there is a standing condition 1 for approval that indicates that that what they say they are going to is recorded.
Don Hutchings stated that he asked because the potential exists for future owners to have access and that increases the impact with potentially more people. He stated that they will review this issue closely and that will include public health and safety related to this.
Robert Cole stated that that 90% of the shore frontage is low land, shallow, and muddy. There is only 10% of this area that would make good access to the lake. It’s a very small piece of land and would not likely accommodate 100 people for example. Don Hutchings agreed but reminded Robert Cole that the potential exists in the future and there is a potential degradation of the lake.
Don Hutchings suggested the 6 lots and that the Board is willing to work with them on this proposal for approval. He encourages him to give careful consideration of the common area as he works on this further. The DEP will need to be involved in this as well.
Don Hutchings asked about the distance closest to the lake. Shawn Frank stated that it is about 560 feet. Don suggested considering parking further back to minimize the impact. Robert Cole stated that his intent is to protect the lake. Don Hutchings also disagrees with a boat ramp. Robert Cole stated that he hadn’t considered the implications and that they are not looking for approval on a ramp/dock, but that it could be a potential for the Association owners.
Don Hutchings suggested tabling this item and scheduling a site walk.
John Redlon asked about snowmobile access. Robert Cole stated that access will be provided as part of this project.
George Thebarge stated that the boat ramp issue as outlined by the Board seems to be a bigger impact as opposed to a pathway to walk-in a kayak and motorized boats using the public access. The key to the ramp issue is a management issue and the conditions for approval and the Association By-laws wording will need to be addressed.
Robert Cole will be available to schedule a site walk when the Board is ready.
Dan Cobb agreed with Don’s comments about the usage of the common area and the more specific the usage is outlined would be beneficial. Shawn Frank reminded the group that the potential future access would require them to appear before the Planning Board.
There was another discussion on the sprinkler issue. Don Hutchings stated that ordinance is clear and there are options.
IV. ~~~~Tabled Matters and Old Business
NONE
V.~~~~~~Adjournment
John Redlon moved; Dan Cobb seconded
Motion to adjourn
3 yes
The meeting ended at 8:13pm.
Note: ~Meetings that are cancelled due to weather will be noted on the Town Web site (www.graymaine.org), local cable channel (2), and 6, 8, & 13 news. ~~If the meeting is cancelled, it will be held the following Thursday night @ 7:00 P.M.
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